Ep 230: Taking a Proactive Approach to the Spring Training Season with Mark Upton
In this episode, I'm joined by long-time friend, fellow horseman, and fly control expert, Mark Upton, as we discuss how to take a proactive approach to the spring training season. Join us as we share our thoughts and experiences around facility preparation, controlling flies in and around the barn, and how adopting a proactive mentality can help make your training more efficient.
To explore the fly control products mentioned in this episode, visit:
Clarifly Larvicide: https://www.centralflycontrol.com/
Starbar Products: https://www.starbarproducts.com/
Farnam Vetrolin Spray Wash: https://www.farnam.com/all-products/grooming-care/vetrolin-body-wash
Questions about how we use these products at our facility? Feel free to send us a message at info@philhaugenhorsemanship.com.
Episode Transcript
Phil: Mark, thanks for joining us.
Mark: Phil, I really appreciate it. I look forward to visiting with you today. I hope all's going well.
Phil: You and I, we expect this, and we know it's coming. But in Oklahoma, this time of year, the weather can be a little wild from day-to-day. We can fluctuate 50° and we can get into our little storm season, which you know all too well about because you just finished rebuilding your house, isn't that correct?
Mark: I did. We actually, at the end of April in 2021, got hit by a tornado and took all the barns and sheds and things to the ground. It didn't take the house to the ground, but it did require us to be out of it for about 18 months. But we're back in now and healed up. I can promise you yesterday was an example–when they start putting out tornado warnings, we get close to home and we start watching the weather really closely.
Phil: Yeah, yeah. And you probably, Mark, just go out into the RV and just spend the night once in a while just for just just to rekindle those memories of camping for a year and half, right?
Mark: You know, I used to think we wanted to have either an RV or a motor home or a fifth wheel… But after living in one for a while, I don't ever want to have to get in another one. We actually only lived in that for about 8 months, but that was way too long.
Phil: Yeah, you know, when we're put in those situations, that kind of scratches that itch for a while, huh?
Mark: Yeah (chuckles), it sure does.
Phil: So, Mark, today I have a whole list of things I'd like to talk about with you. To start us off, tell everybody a little bit about what you do at Central Life Sciences, which is the company that you represent. I love the products–Clarifly, Starbar, and Farnam. But, tell us a little bit to start with, and then we're going to get into some horsemanship stuff.
Mark: Central Life Sciences, from a 10,000 foot view, doesn't do anything except control bugs. We have products for every type of insect you can think of. To get more granular, I spend 100% of my working time trying to control flies. I was joking with somebody the other day saying I've been in all 50 states and at least three countries talking about fresh manure and flies – who never thought you could make a living doing that. But, it keeps us busy because fly control is a real problem. It's not only a problem from the performance standpoint, but from a spreading standpoint. It’s a big business, but it’s kind of a niche business. We do own Farnam (that's a sister company of ours), and between Central Life Sciences and Farnam we've just got dozens and dozens of products on the market to try to help control any type of fly really and in any type of situation.
Phil: I tell you, one of the horsemanship principles that this leads into is the thinking and reacting sides of a horse’s brain. I've already seen flies showing up here, and I actually sprayed a couple horses yesterday while I was working them. And you know, when you have a horse tied up and they're over there stomping flies… I don't like them standing there pawing for two reasons: 1) A horse's feet are hard enough to keep sound the way it is and 2) from a trainer's perspective, stomping is a reactive response. You're already dealing with a situation where you need to stimulate the thinking side of that animal’s brain to progress in the training process. We all know that when horses are being reactive, they're somewhat controllable, but not trainable. And until we flip that switch to the thinking side of the brain, they're not trainable. Well, I tell you what, those little flies have been a burr under my saddle blanket my whole life. Because especially coming up on this time of year, it seems to me like that first hatch or two of flies that show up–it's like they're on steroids. They're attacking some livestock, and those horses are not in a trainable mentality when they are being attacked by those flies.
Mark: You're exactly right, and that is exactly what happens. Mother Nature wakes those insects up after that long winter's nap, and boy, they really kick that life cycle into overdrive. Where it may typically take a family 21 to 28 days to go from egg to adult, that life cycle will shorten up quite a bit. And boy, you just get several generations of flies in a really short period of time. And, Phil, this is a very timely conversation because, as we're entering into the summertime, our weather is a little ahead this year than typical. I know you'll remember a few years ago when you rode a colt for me that didn't have the tips of his ears… that colt was born on March the 4th and it was 12°. I had a foal born this year on March the 4th and it was 65°. So, we're a little ahead of the season this year, but it's very timely because we've got to have a fly control program in place. If you wait until there's just flies crawling on top of flies, you can get ahead of them. It's going to take you some time, it's going to cost you some money, and it's going to cost a lot of effort. But, having that proactive approach to fly control will be worth it.
To start, we want to identify what flies are the problem. In the scenario you mentioned, when those horses are standing, tied up and stomping, that's either going to be a stable fly or a house fly. There's some things that we can do to control that. For example, the discipline that you and I like to play in, we like to rope. Well, you back your horse in the corner and those little bitty flies are all over your steers and your calves… First thing you know, they're going to be flying over to the horse. Well, then the horse is not paying attention. They're very uncomfortable in the corner. That's a whole different type of fly. That's a horn fly, and it's a little different type of approach to control those. So, it's important to know what your problems are, and then, let's work to build a plan around it.
Phil: You know, for me, from the horsemanship side of it, obviously it's a tremendous benefit for me being one of your endorsees because I've learned a ton about flies and specifically what products I need to control them. Just like now – if I'm sitting out here, and I've got ten horses tied to the hitching rack, and they're all switching their tail and stomping… you don't have to be Einstein to figure out that you have a little bit of an issue. But from the training side of it, understanding how a horse thinks can tell you that those flies are a tremendous annoyance, and in turn, are affecting your horse’s ability to understand the responses you’re asking for. Though rarely fatal, those fly distractions are a time waster when you're in the business of training.
Mark: It is. And you know, as I said a while ago, it's a timely conversation because we're coming out of the winter, and we're headed in the spring. Some things that we need to be thinking about are:
Do we have big piles of manure sitting around?
Have we been cleaning stalls?
If we have manure piled up, where are we hauling it?
It’s essential to get that manure hauled out because that is the source of stable flies and house flies. So, we need to get that all hauled out spread out on pasture or hauled away from the place and reduce that. You mentioned a while ago weeds are growing like crazy right now. Well, those stable flies like to fly to that horse, get a blood meal and then go rest in weeds. So, it’s just time that we put a plan together. Hopefully, last year we made notes of products that did work and ones that didn't work. We need to assess whether we even want to try them again, or maybe we maybe there was user error. It's really important to read those labels and know how to use them for efficacy reasons, and also obviously for safety reasons, too.
Phil: Yeah, well, and that’s something that everybody has control of. Here, all of the stalls and runs are picked daily, and the spreaders are dumped daily. They don't ever sit full because, basically, what you're doing is providing the ideal breeding ground for flies. We take that manure, and we spread it every day and get it out away from the barns. Obviously, we’re not going to eliminate our fly challenges. But, we can manage them with a little common sense.
One thing that I've learned, especially with the collaboration that we have with Central Life Sciences is understanding how to use the products correctly. Because, just like you said, application and reading the label is key. I'm going to be the first to admit, a lot of times I'm not great about reading the labels. Historically, I’ve just used the products the way I think they should be used. But, that application and understanding the fly’s life cycle is really big.
Talking specifically about the performance horse people that are rodeoing and showing horses – as we all know, trailers get dirty. What are some things that we can do on a daily basis to help control that challenge?
Mark: When you're hauling a lot and out on the road, here's chemistry that you can use to control that challenge. And obviously, there are mechanical barriers as well. When I say mechanical barriers, I’m talking about things like fly masks or fly sheets that you can put on to try to help out. Sprays also work very well. I would encourage people to read that label, and if you're using the spray and it's just for some reason quit working, read and see what the active ingredient is, and then find a spray that has a different active ingredient. Those things will wear out over time, so it's really important that you switch active ingredients, especially when you’re out on the road like that. Those are the main things I would do, and obviously, keep the trailer as cleaned out as possible. You're always going to fight some problems when you're traveling, and those horses are going to be somewhat uncomfortable from time to time. But, the fact that you're traveling is going to help that a lot. You're in different places every day, so manure is not stacking up. It's when you're back home that it's really important that you try to keep things cleaned up and keep the stored manure down to a minimum.
Typically it's the house flies that are the main problem for a horse. The stable fly also can be, but it's typically the house fly that's the problem in and around a horse barn or a facility. If you're at a show barn or stalling facility for several days at a time, that's where the big problem is. So, in order to control those specific types of flies, you’ve got to understand their natural behavior. House flies want to rest up high. Think about the old sticky traps that we've used for decades... Those are designed to capture the flies looking for a place to land, rest, and feed down low. When they come down, they go to feed on the manure. So, if we're going to use something to bait and draw them in, those baits are going to be down near the floor because that's where those flies are looking for food. It's just important to know, first of all, what the fly is and then secondly, what the characteristics of that fly are. If you put that sticky trap down on the ground, chances are, you're not catching very many flies. And by the same token, if you put a bait or something they have to eat up very high, chances are you're not going to kill very many flies. So, it's just knowing the characteristics.
Phil: One thing about the baits – which I've had tremendous luck with, by the way – is that for those people who have cats or dogs running around in their barns, are those types of fly control systems safe? Talk a little bit about what people need to look for in the event that they have small animals running around.
Mark: In good product stewardship, I would have to discourage the use of baits if they have a lot of dogs and cats. I would discourage just sprinkling a scatter bait out on the ground. Granted, some are much more toxic than others. There are some that if they were to eat a little bit of it, it might, at the most, make them sick. But, there are others that, if they ate some of it, it would be fatal immediately. So, I would discourage scatter baits in that situation. If you've got dogs and cats running around, you’re better off putting it in some type of a bait station, which makes it easy for a fly family to get into, and very difficult for these non-target species to get into. There's a product out there that I use in my barn, and I've got dogs and cats running around. It's called the QuikStrike® Fly Abatement Strip. It's a little strip with insecticide on it. A fly lands on it, and after they take a bite within a second and a half or so, they're gone. You can put that in a 5-gallon bucket so that it catches the dead flies, but still discourages these non-target species from getting in it.
We also have a product that it's also called QuikStrike®, but it's water soluble. Per label, you can mix some of it into water, stir it around, shake it around in a spray bottle or something like that, and spray the walls of the barn. So, if the afternoon sun comes out, you walk out and see on the side of the barn where you'll have a lot of flies on the side of the barn trying to absorb heat. Well, you can spray this on the barn or any structure that those flies like to congregate on to attract and kill them. It's kind of a sugary-type substance, and as soon as they land on it, they'll take a bite, and it will take care of them. That works really well too, because again, you're not just putting something down on the ground that a dog or a cat could consume.
Phil: Coming from North Dakota where we have a lot of mosquitoes, I compare the fly situation in Oklahoma to that. There were times where fighting mosquitoes was all I could think about, not training horses. The difference in the horses when they're not being bothered, annoyed, or attacked by flies is tremendous. It's definitely something that affects their thought process. And like you said, that was a great example when you were talking about when we're trying to rope on one, and we expect them to stand there in the corner like a statue, but then at the same time, you know, get attacked by flies. We have to put the measures in place to help control that distraction.
Mark: Absolutely, Phil, and that brings up two thoughts. On the one hand, we do also have a side of the business that specializes in feed additives. We have products that you can feed the animals to help prevent flies. The one that I would recommend for horses is called ClariFly® Larvicide. It's a daily dose that you top dress over feed, and it passes through the horse into the manure. When that manure then is piled up and they come to that manure and lay their eggs, you're preventing those eggs from becoming mature flies. It’s the same principle with having a proactive approach to controlling those flies, but you are just catching them at a different stage in the lifecycle. The fact is, we're never going to get to zero flies. We just have to do everything we can to try to keep them at a lower rate and and protect against them as best we can.
Phil: Yeah, the ClariFly feed-through product, I mean, that's kind of a no brainer if you're into a preventative program. Fly spray is a bit more of a reactive than proactive approach when it comes to fly control. When we're having to spray them with fly spray constantly, that can become costly too. Plus, we’ve already allowed that horse to endure the bite and trigger that reactive response. When we spray, we're basically just reacting to what's already happened. But when you use the feed through products, you're being a lot more proactive. And you know, that's kind of our philosophy around here. I'd rather be proactive than reactive. One thing that I love in the summertime is washing our horses off after a ride, and Farnam actually has a product for that, too – Vetrolin Body Wash. Tell us a little about that product and how that works together with some of these other fly control measures.
Mark: Yes, absolutely. It is a good idea every once in a while to give that horse a bath with that body wash. If you're in the heat of fly season and you've had to spray them with a traditional fly spray continually, that body wash can be beneficial for a few reasons. I don't know if an entomologist would tell you that spraying that fly spray over time is good for the health of the animal or anything like that – but I can tell you, in my mind, I do think it's good to give those animals a bath for a couple of reasons. First of all, you're washing that old off any spray that you put on them. But, the biggest thing you’re doing is you're cleaning them of any dirt or filth. I turned a horse out this morning – in fact, it was the yellow gelding that you rode for me several years ago – and he's just like one of those kids who can find any mud hole. That gelding can find one little pile of filth anywhere, and that's what he's going to roll in. Well, you know, if you give those horses a bath every now and then, you're just washing that off. There's less substance for those flies to land on and feed on, because that's what they're looking for. So, absolutely give those horses a bath in the summertime. I try to rinse them off every day, if I can. You're certainly not hurting anything, and in my opinion, you're helping.
Phil: On the fly control front, are there any other tips you have for our listeners out there? Anything you want to add to what we've talked about? And then we're going to pivot and talk about horses.
Mark: Absolutely. If there was one thing I could stress today it is the importance of understanding offense versus defense. Fly spray is defense, and don’t get me wrong, there is definitely a need for it. I've got it in my barn as well. But, try to get on offense. Try to clean things up. Try to keep spilt feed to a minimum. Try to keep manure hauled away. Try to keep the weeds mowed down. Try to get on offense, and stay ahead of the problem. It's cheaper to do. You're going to be more comfortable. The horses are going to be more comfortable. Any cattle that you have around are going to be more comfortable. You can't always do that, but it's really good to get ahead of it. The second thing I would say is make notes of what you've used and what works well and what doesn't. It's really important to keep up with that because you’ll get through the winter, and you’ll forget what you did last fly season. It seems crazy that we spend so much time, energy and money trying to prevent or get rid of flies, but it's just part of it. We're just never going to get away from it. And the sooner you realize that and put a plan in place, the better off you're going to be.
Phil: One thing I would add from the training side in the progression, you know we're all in the business of progressing our horses in training constantly. One thing that I'm always looking at is the cost versus return on everything. When I have a horse in training, whether it's mine or a customer's horse, I can’t afford to lose that day of training or be inefficient with that day of training. So, whatever the cost is that day of keeping my facility up, it’s worth it to me to have a productive day of training. Everybody's time is valuable. When you're training your horse, you're working on progressing your horse’s training, which is like putting money in the bank. You work to increase the value of that horse daily. There's a big trade off for that fly control because, if you're letting your horse fight flies all day while you're trying to train it, then you probably didn't get that progression. Even if you didn't get the progression, you still spent your time and your customer’s money that day to not get the same result. So that's the way I look at it, because you know, we just can't afford to lose those days in training. I spoke about it earlier too, but you think about the soundness issue – even with your horses in the pasture where they can get away from the population explosion of the barn, there's still going to be some flies. You think about how many times a horse might stomp its foot a day… there's no way there can't be a toll on that horse structurally over time.
Mark: I agree completely. So, you know, that's the way I look at it because especially like on my older horses, I want them to last as long as I can. I know what it costs to make a good one. I know how hard it is to get them to that point, and they need to last as long as I can physically get them to last. I think sometimes we kind of forget about that.
Phil: Yeah, I agree completely. It needs to be part of the program. The internal health is important for a horse, but so is the external health as well, and flies are a part of that. I want to talk a little bit about the training side of it, because Mark, you train all your own horses. You do a great job and have a great foundation program, but you also have a job that is very busy and very time consuming. Your schedule is erratic at best, at times, right? How do you juggle your career and your training?
Mark: I know people that will miss four or five days, and they'll come home and on day one they'll saddle up the horse and go pen the caves and go rope on them. And, I've just never felt comfortable doing that. If I'm gone 3, 4, or 5 days and haven't been able to ride, I feel like I need to spend a day or two just riding them. You know, just riding off the fresh and getting them loosened up. I just feel like they deserve that. And I'll be honest with you, there was a time in my life where I was traveling so much that I would be home, and I might have two days to ride them, and then I'm gone the third day. So it was very, very difficult for me, and I kept very few horses around because of that. I'm not traveling as much anymore, so that's not a big issue for me now. But still, I was gone 3 days last week and so that first day back, I'm just reintroducing myself to them. I want to get in the arena and just go through some of the drills that I've learned from you. You know, just the softening drills and moving them off of my legs and getting them back to paying attention to what I want. I’m just making sure we're on the same page because my temper is still as bad as it always was, and my impatience gets the best of me at times. So, what I've learned is to avoid confrontation. The last thing I want is to take a fresh horse and back them in the corner and then be upset with them because they're fresh and not acting right. So I’ve really tried to just spend some time with them and get things back in a program before I ask them for a whole lot. But, that can be tough. I do not have lights in my arena. I've done that on purpose because in the summertime, the darkness is the only thing that drives me into the house. But, there are times that it would be nice that I could spend some time out there and have more hours of daylight where I could spend some time with them. But, it is a challenge, I'll be the first to admit.
Phil: You touched on a couple points there that are really important. You talk about getting back on them after you know a a period of time – I think there's a period in there where you have to re-stimulate that thinking side of their brain. And last weekend, I was in Central Oregon for a clinic, and I was gone for four full days you know. When I got back on one filly in particular, it had been four days, and we were a little lost right at first. So, I spent one day on basically three or four exercises, completing repetitions, stimulating the thinking side of her brain, and getting her to come back to me. You and I have talked before about that association that your horse makes with you… I always want that association to be “thinking” and looking for a response. I always want them to be reading my signals. And here's what happens if you don't take the time to do that… I think you start to stimulate the opposite. It's easier to make a bad habit than a good one. And, if you get back on them and they're fractious and you're in a hurry, you’re going to be creating a bad habit.
Mark: I 100% agree. And I’ll tell you the other thing I think about a lot, Phil, is you talk a lot about over managing a horse. In other words, you're overriding them. You're not giving them an opportunity to make a mistake. You're just kind of protecting them all the time. And, I think it's important when you've been gone for some time and you get back on one, you know let's see how they ride. Let's see how they handle that freshness being off. Let's see if they're going to be a little erratic. What I’ve found is, as they begin to mature, what took me at one point in time 30 minutes to kind of get them back thinking now maybe it takes only 5 minutes. I think there's good in days off as well as bad. It's just all in how you manage it.
Phil: Yeah, I tell you what, you brought up another great point there and that is understanding the opportunity we have on those breaks. Here's the reality of life: Everybody's going to have those breaks. Everybody. You know, the majority of the people in the performance horse world are like you, where they've got some nice horses and they've got some time, but they also have a career, a family. I mean, I'm the same way. You know, I’ve had a career that allowed me to spend a lot of time riding horses, but with as much as I’m gone with my clinic schedule now, that is kind of pivoting. It’s been a great opportunity for those horses that I do still have in training though because you can use those days off as a great evaluator of where your horse is really at, if you'll let yourself. One of the things we have to be really careful of is when we feel like we've had that time off, so we're trying to make up four days in one. What happens there is then we micromanage them, we don’t let them be accountable. And we don't find out if they are reading our signals or if they are waiting for us to micromanage them.
Mark: Well Phil, I'm kind of grinning as you're talking because I can just see a video of me when I get home from being gone and I come in the house and change clothes and I put on my boots. I guarantee you I can walk fast enough to the barn that most people would have to be in a slow jog to keep up with me. And I'm, you know, I'm slinging brushes and slinging saddles and I mean I can't wait to get on them, and I've got an agenda. 'll be the first to admit that I still get hung up on not enjoying the process. I'm looking at the end goal. Well, I've been gone. I'm anxious to get them ridden. I will see how they ride. I make sure to start getting them a little bit tired. Well, that is a process. You have to slow down and work through the process. You know, I think that’s part of maturing. It’s having an end goal in mind, but also remembering the steps it takes to get there. And every one of them is different. Every horse is different. It's just maturing in your horsemanship and recognizing those things and not trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.
Phil: We've all been guilty of that – trying to shove a square peg in a round hole. But yeah, it's definitely a process of understanding that those challenges are going to be different with each horse, and coming to the reality of your timelines. Sometimes we just have to understand that with life, it doesn't matter who you are, life happens. I'm glad you brought that up because we have to look at it like every day we step in the stirrup, it’s just a blessing.
Mark: It is, and that's the thing, Phil. I mean, you've heard people say “a bad day fishing is better than a good day at work.” Well, it’s the same thing with horses. If you're blessed to be able to get on them, I don't care if it's one day a week, you just have to consider those as blessings and enjoy it. And I know it's hard. Every day, I fight it. But it's just a joy to be able to get to ride. It keeps our blood pumping. Keeps us going, keeps us in shape, keeps us moving.
Phil: Yeah, that's the truth. I always think about this when you and I are talking about fly control…how would it be if the tables were turned and I had to fight the fly problem and my horse had control of making my life comfortable or not. Well, I would definitely like them to have some measures that help control that and make me more comfortable.
Mark: I agree. And, I guarantee you I would probably be in a lot better mood when I stepped on their back to work with them. I know I don't do everything perfectly, but if I had to come back in my second life as a horse, I'd want somebody paying attention to those things like what I try to do. It's just a matter of trying to eliminate as many of those obstacles as possible. You can't remove them all, but remove as many as you can, and it would only make sense that it would be easier to get to the end goal that you're desiring.
Phil: The big thing here is, with everything we do, really the goal is to be proactive and try to limit the part of the training process that's reactive.
Mark: Yeah, that's exactly right. It's just a matter of putting a plan together of what you're wanting to try to accomplish and then finding the products that help you do that.
